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Some things i've noticed that i feel, i need to point out.


iivirist
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Hello everyone!

 

I've played the game for a long time (>2.1k h), and i've been through many changes in the game, and i think i do have some extensive knowledge of the game,

not that it actually helps me in any way.

 

 

So, let's get into this. 

 

Firstly let's start talking about trophy rates of different tackles;

 

Trophy precentage. It's extremely rare to get a trophy while spin fishing, same seems to go towards float fishing, especially when you actually start comparing with other tackle types.

Here are 2 examples of trophy rate compared to other types of tackles:
 

Lvl 43

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.869a755eeac28d9518bc804b1a6040c0.png

 

Spinning tackle trophy rate ( Spinning + Casting + Jerk): 0.268%

Bottom tackle trophy rate ( Carp + Picker + Feeder): 1.225%

Float tackle trophy rate (Tele): 0.227%

 

Lvl 41

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.cbcbbfdc41cbb7089e890e4119d11642.png

 

Spinning tackle trophy rate (Spinning + Casting + Jerk): 0.291%

Bottom tackle trophy rate (Carp + Feeder): 1.311%

Float tackle trophy rate (Tele + Match): 0.329%

 

When we look at that, we see that there is a whole precentage difference between bottom and other tackle types, there is absolutely no reason to have such a huge differece, they should be even.

 

I welcome people to post their own trophy rates as well, it's simple: (trophies caught) / (fish caught) * 100 = your trophy rate. Bigger the sample size, the better.

 

So let's look into that a little deeper, why that could be. Since i don't do much of float fishing then my knowledge is limited to spin tackle, and i'll refrain on commenting on float.

 

1. There is absolutely no consistent way to target bigger fish when spin fishing, no matter how your setup is built. (While bottom tackle has a way to some degree of targeting bigger fish)

2. Lure size does not matter at all. (No matter what lure you use, big, small, medium, if lure is active then it's going to get all and any fish)

3. Hook size has minimal to no effect at all. (The amount of perch and smelt and other tiny fish you catch on an extra large hooks just doesn't make any sense. Yes, small fish can sometimes get "snagged" on the hook, but nowhere near the rate the game implies. Mostly affects the number of fish caught rather than quality.)

4. Leader size has only the effect on the amount of fish you catch, not quality.

5. There is a possiblity that the rate of trophy fish (or even just simply the bigger fish) are actually hardcoded limit.

 

Other tackle types need the love too!

 

Now, let's get into other problems.

 

Recent changes to the fishing system, especially towards bottom tackle, where one spot works at best for an hour (Yes, i've read the Q/A and it's being said it's the amount of fish, not the time). But even so, it doesn't seem to matter, wheter you catch 60 fish in an hour or 10, the spot still dies after an hour +-15min. It hits all the fishing really hard. Especially for the types of fish that at bests have 1 "active" spot for the entire game at any given time and/or they already have a really slow bite rate. When fishing for sturgeon, beluga, buffalo, big head, silver, wild carp etc you're hard limited to fishing these fish 1 hour out of every 3 hours on most cases, you don't really have options.

 

Options on having to choose what you want to fish. This is definitely a biggie too, you're limited to fish what is active, and you don't really have a choice in the matter.

I suppose i can understand the concept of you being able to fish a fish thats active, but everyone has to realise that usually, if not all the time, the activity changes last for months, which means you're limited to catching these x fish for up to 6 months, until there is like forced migration (which sometimes does not do much either), and just hope that maybe this week we are going to have some activity changes and i can fish for something else than these x fish.

 

On most cases of bottom tackle, you're forced to change a map if you want to keep catching fish. Which i mean by that, is that any single map at any single point has at best 2 active spots, which with the recent changes forces player to change map after 2 hours, since 1st spot hasn't recovered, or unless you're willing to change the type of you want to catch. Once again our options are limited when you want to catch certain fish, either you change map, try for something else, or just wait for an hour or 2 until spot recovers.

 

Every map, no matter the level, the expanses, fish etc average out to be around 400-600 silver per hour, same implies to exp/h. Whats the point of getting better gear, leveling up and opening higher level/more expensive maps, if the reward for that is miniscule or non-existant?

 

There are much more problems, but they are tiny compared to these ones. And i have to admit that i personally feel the direction the game has taken lately doesn't please me and i definitely don't enjoy playing the game hours on end as i used to. And i do believe there to be a lot players that have the same feeling as i do. This also means i don't play the game a lot any more, and might leave it altogether, given i get other and better options to fish.

 

Kind regards

Edited by iivirist
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Much appreciated to see people pointing out the game's current issues.  With zero feedback and a bunch of yes people, this game will lose a great portion of fisherpeoples.  Like iivirist has sounded off, we need to get dialogue open with the devs and have a conversation on what they are doing and where they are trying to go.  More can be said but this is not a negative post by any means.  Concerned people are welcome to voice up and be open about current fushin status in this "game".

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  • Administrator

Hello @iivirist,
thank you for this excellent and detailed feedback! Many of the points you are making we are already discussing internally and you bring up some important other aspects as well. This is very helpful!

Regards,
Joe

 

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Very detailed feedback indeed, well done mate for pointing out the aspect that bottom fishing is actually in my opinion "overpowered" in many aspects. I feel that float fishing in general and spinning, specially Match section on float for targeting Carps needs a overlook.

 

Tight Lines people! 🙂

Edited by Zaon90
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29 Unique Trophies (Another account) - Have 8 of them but only 2 played in last year . . .

image.png.dd9aecbb3cac9bbf9ce0b51ed59e8bd2.png

Spinning tackle trophy rate (Spinning + Casting + Jerk): 0.282%

Bottom tackle trophy rate (Carp + Feeder): 0.558%

Float tackle trophy rate (Tele + Match): 0.198%

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@iivirist, I and other ppl have been posting these same and many more different issues for literal years. You are high level, I think you have been around for long to see the things for what they are but I will type the fallowing anyway:

 

Once you figure out all the hidden game's user unfriendly mechanics, paired with ever more silver squeezing updates with less and less new content...the game loses its magic even for the biggest fan. 

 

IN MY OPINION Joe's answer is just empty PR. Devs team have a vision for their game and outside is having close to zero say in it. This has been undeniable FACT over the years. 

Speaking of in my 4 1/2 year experience here I can honestly recall only ONE instance where they listened. ONE! They made boat engine sound adjustable. And it only took them 3 years, because ppl talked about it as far ago as 2019. Not to say that this engine thing was game braking, only to illustrate the timeline for change here.

 

I wish this game evolved faster. They are just little too slow and little too greedy from the view of the seasoned players rostrum.

But I guess we already had our fun.

 

- signing 4300 hour in and not counting (for now) player

 

 

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forgot to put my stats sorry

 

Spinning tackle trophy rate (Spinning + Casting + Jerk): 0.201%

Bottom tackle trophy rate (Carp + Feeder + Picker): 1.083%

Float tackle trophy rate (Tele + Match): 0.355%

 

I would like to point out though that these stats will be heavily biased on what type of fishing you are doing. For example if you are hunting mostly the rarer fish then of course your stats will be lower and vice versa.

Edited by wildcarrotboy
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I do agree with a good portion of what you said. 

 

Rf4 is such a special game and (in my opinion) is miles ahead of the other fishing games. And honestly I believe a lot of that can be attributed towards how the game is balanced.

 

Regarding your points on spin fishing I can't really say anything because honestly I have not noticed any difference when changing hooks etc. So maybe this proves your point but at the same time I think it's so hard to actually see a difference unless you are making a record of some sort over many weeks of playing, noting the changes you made on your rig.

 

I completely agree with you on the issues of spots dying out. It becomes tedious and predictable and does feel slightly "scripted" gameplay rather than natural lake activity.
 

It must be very difficult for them to fine tune the silver players can make/fish caught/trophies caught. Too much and the game becomes boring and easy, too little and the game becomes frustrating and demotivating. It would be nice to be able to earn the same amount we can make on archipelago across the other high level maps more consistently. They must be very careful not to go too far into one direction. I feel like where it is now is almost right. I do feel like they could VERY slightly increase catch rate/trophy rate. But again, this must be so difficult because it is not so simple as just turn a dial for all fish. It must be tailored specifically for each fish due to rarity/difficulty of some fish.

 

For me there is no other game that has the feeling you get when you finally got that trophy fish like in rf4. And this feeling can quickly be ruined by going too far in one direction. So on this issue I would rather devs consider all sides and make the right decision.

 

 

Edited by wildcarrotboy
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So what I have heard from a few streamers is their disbelief in the post above.  Show me the data.  All lies.  

 

The problem with this community is a lot of the older people do not want to have a discussion.  Discussion vs opinions / identifying what has changed.  For years people had a believe for certain ways to fish and held onto their ways with "This is the only way to do it".

 

Lo and behold 1 translation and 3 years later... The way that some have been bottom feeding with different PVA's, spods, baits combined was actually fine and correct vs use only one thing and stick with the one thing.

 

Only pike can bite off a leader -  Not true.

 

I have x, y, z gear.  Other players should spend years trying to get what I have (trophies included) because I played when the game 1st came out.  Insta-reel fish, zero fight (less pulling weight of fish), 8 billion fish in the water those days compared to 20-50 fish an hour now, anchored boat spinning, 3 rod shore spinning, the list goes on and on.  Yet what is the one thing you hear from older players / streamers - 100s an hour is more than enough (I will not put a calculator with repairs etc on how long that would take a casual player from getting a venga/triumph + ultima rod) - The most obscene statement I have heard.  People should farm just like I had to (see previous comments of all the open free crap they had for years) - you didn't earn it, Trophies should be hard to catch just like other fish (Again - you have just now taken everything away from a FISHING game.  When someone posts a question or issue, DO NOT ping back with "Well, in real fishing . . .".  Guess what?  This is a FISHING GAME.  Even the devs themselves have said "We have tried to make some things resemble real fishing but remember, this is a game.".  Equating reeling in a fish for 16 - 48 hours in game time - ZERO sense again.  Having ALL fish depending on the size of your gear actually be locked down to a TIMER - one of the most arcade thing you can do - but it is here... in this game.

 

The current problem with the game is the old playerbase and a dev group that communicates ZERO with the population of the game:  This year alone:

 

Archi came out - Fishing with 55kg - 27kg setups - fun, fantastic, a blast - 90+fish an hour

2 months later -  Archi patched.  55kg not really working anymore.  Fish count down.  Locked down to specific lures being on or off dependent upon leader size (Subtle hint, smaller leaders, all lures work). 50-70 fish an hour

1-2 months later - Archi patched again.  Now bite rate gone to utter and complete trash.  Lower leaders + proper sized hooks = the fish you want, just smaller rate.  Lots of perch + smelt.  Again, zero sense to have 100+ kuoris worth of water and not a single fish in a square. 20-40 fish an hour

 

Same time as above:

Amber - ok-ish beginning of year. Nothing more than 600 an hour unless a couple of cafe orders

Bear - Still complete nothingness (Why do we have a water body if we are not going to stock it with fish)

Volkhov - No longer are the days of catching atlantics like dolphins running around on the high seas.

Sura, tunguska, etc - Where are the bigheads / silver carp, Cats, sturg, caspian

 

All there is now are people that run and flock to one spot because someone caught something there.  That is not fishing.  That is people doing exactly what everyone else has done.  Zero reward for actual fishing and testing vs following the lure that is hot.  Not one single word from dev's of above on how the fish calcs have changed, lowering of the percentage of medium - larger fish while keeps 0 - small fish in abundance.

 

I have sat here on multiple streams since this post came out.  Nothing but hatred.  From people that haven't played this game in years to new players.  Nobody has their own opinion and not a single one of these streamers has tested a single thing stated.  But boy oh boy do they have an opinion of disagreeance.  Why?  Saw one that did a stream, laughed and "mostly disagreed" with everything posted.  Then when fishing for an hour and all the fish completely stopped was called out for it.  "Must have been a coincidence".

 

Understand current state in this game:

Bottom fishing - Unchanged - crap numbers

Spin fishing - COMPLETELY changed - undersized leaders + proper hook sizes = enjoy the 1 hour + fish fight on your 40k+ setup (i.e. why did you spend 40k+ for that rod + reel???)

Small - med fish - Abundant

Medium - large fish - NON-EXISTANT compared to beginning of year with no updates from devs - Community people - figure it out...

 

 

Now from above:

 

"It would be nice to be able to earn the same amount we can make on archipelago across the other high level maps more consistently"

 

Why make the same amount of money on other lakes as archi?  That makes zero sense.  I pay more to travel to archi.  I pay way more than any other place for a boat ticket.  Why is it every single lake makes 400-700 an hour with a +/-?  If every lake makes the same amount of money, then why in the world would anyone want to travel to any other lake?  They have nerfed the economy into a bubbled zone where this is what you will earn in an hour.  That's it.  That is not fishing and that is not fun.
 

Archi has over 100 kuori sized maps  in it.  WHERE ARE THE FISH?

Yama, was a hotbed with 19kg-35 kg leaders in it.  But again, want a bite rate, drop it to 13-17 and cast far enough... Enjoy the hour+ fight.

Amber, ponds all over, For the past2 months everyone has been fishing towards peg 1 because that is the most reliable fish count to catch.  So exciting logging into one map and fishing one single spot every day.  Anyone else trying to hold all that excitement in?

Bear, Occasional garbage fish / occasional "oh what a nice fish" - Why is this lake even in the game?

Mosquito / windings.  Used to be a blast of catching small - trophy fish and getting spooled.  Now... Horrible

Belaya, as with yama, volk, amber, bear, archi - MINIMAL FISH

Kuori, undersize your gear, catch fish.  Oversize your gear, catch perch

 

I can keep going and going.  The intent of this post is not to bash.  To not instantly hate upon people that have tested something that they have done nothing with.  But to give details.  I have said it 3 times and my last post in bug reports regarding the bite rate being a bug or done on purpose was deleted,  Dev questions and posts in steam go unanswered.  People have been deleted/banned/put in prison.  We are the playerbase and we deserve to understand what changes are going on / what is the future of this game.

 

I have personally invested thousands of dollars to give items to other players over the years.  I continue to support this game.  But this game needs to support the players and not just the ones that say there is nothing wrong with it on a stream.  But currently gone are the days of many compas for comps sake.  Sending items has been turned into - only if purchased with gold only.  New groundbait / lures with gold purchase (Awaiting those to be removed next from sending to other players).  See how the chains of this game are not player friendly?
 

I will continue to support the players and try to keep new players playing but guys, what are you doing to the game?  Help us help you.  That is the simplest formula you can think of for any model.

 

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You have said a lot but not really given any suggestions. I understand your frustration but I think you are oversimplifying things. I should have said I don't really mean to make as much as archi, I understand the high costs to fish there. I mean more about bringing some consistency to some of the higher level maps so it's possible to earn some consistent good money.

 

Quote

Why make the same amount of money on other lakes as archi?

 

So the game is not funneled into one map to farm silver and the feeling of being restricted to certain maps to make your money. We have multiple high level maps, let's open them up.
 

Quote

I pay more to travel to archi.  I pay way more than any other place for a boat ticket.

 

And so you should, archipelago has the potential to earn into the thousands. On a good spot with the correct lures its very possible to make 1500 silver in one hour. Will you always get that? no. But that's the chance you take for the prices you pay.

 

Quote

If every lake makes the same amount of money, then why in the world would anyone want to travel to any other lake? 

 

So that there is more freedom and flexibility in the game to still go after the trophies and map that you are targetting, and still earn some good money. This game is a grind and items cost a lot of silver. I play this game a lot more than the casual fisherman and It's still tough for me to buy the things I want. I can't imagine for the majority of players that are just doing 1-2 hours a day. They can never dream to buy all the things they want with silver. Ever. Unless with gold. 

 

Quote

They have nerfed the economy into a bubbled zone where this is what you will earn in an hour.  That's it.  That is not fishing and that is not fun.

 

I am interested to hear how you think it should be addressed/handled. What is your ideal state of the game?

 

 

Edited by wildcarrotboy
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@wildcarrotboy

 

Hey!

 

I do understand your point on having that great feeling when you get a trophy, and i don't mean changing it just by just increasing a trophy rate.

 

That's why i mentioned the problems with spinning, and while stated things might not be 100% accurate, these have been tested for months, by many different people, it was a group effort and this is the conclusion we came to.

 

If the game allows us to target the fish size better, it will allow us to generate ourselves better fish, hunt for them, but also this will decrease amount of fish you get, since there isn't tons of big fish. There is a balance there. At least where i sit. I think you might've too simplified things, by just saying we just want more bigger fish, it isn't the specific case, yes we want bigger fish but not as a free handout, but by being able to target them.

 

Maybe it'll clear some things up.

 

Cheers!

Edited by iivirist
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Quote

Even the devs themselves have said "We have tried to make some things resemble real fishing but remember, this is a game.".  Equating reeling in a fish for 16 - 48 hours in game time - ZERO sense again.  Having ALL fish depending on the size of your gear actually be locked down to a TIMER - one of the most arcade thing you can do - but it is here... in this game.

 

RF4 strives to be more of a simulator than an arcade game. And I think what they are trying to do is make the fights similar to real fishing. Now I am not a real angler nor do I have any knowledge of fishing in the real world so I cannot really put any real opinion on this apart from I don't mind the fight times. Although my opinion is biased towards having more time in game than the more casual player.

 

7 hours ago, iivirist said:

Hey!

 

I do understand your point on having that great feeling when you get a trophy, and i don't mean changing it just by just increasing a trophy rate.

 

That's why i mentioned the problems with spinning, and while stated things might not be 100% accurate, these have been tested for months, by many different people, it was a group effort and this is the conclusion we came to.

 

If the game allows us to target the fish size better, it will allow us to generate ourselves better fish, hunt for them, but also this will decrease amount of fish you get, since there isn't tons of big fish. There is a balance there. At least where i sit. I think you might've too simplified things, by just saying we just want more bigger fish, it isn't the specific case, yes we want bigger fish but not as a free handout, but by being able to target them.

 

Maybe it'll clear some things up.

 

Cheers!

 

My previous post from this one was not towards you but towards section008. I agree with almost everything you say. I too, do not think we should just be handed bigger fish. And do you not think bigger hook bigger fish is not over simplifying? Although I suppose what we mean here is bigger hook LESS small fish right? And then we do not get so much this feeling of frustration when finally on the 110 lure with 4/0 hooks we get a bite... and.. 20g smelt haha.

 

In my honest opinion hooks sizes need to match lure size for maximum attractiveness. Attractiveness towards the fish we are catching is the ultimate goal, no?

 

If you have any data regarding the testing the friends and yourself did it would be amazing to see that here. Many people (including me) have said they want to do this sort of stuff but never really record anything and just tested on intuition. It's from this hard written data we can really see what's going on.

 

Edited by wildcarrotboy
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Bad language is never needed to say anything, esp in a public discussion.

 

Regarding your low level, this is the part where being part of a community can help you.  I can tell you I started a new account and in 8 hours I was level 20.

 

With light fishing starter kit, 3kg braided line, with 2.3 leader (fluoro), Spiker 2-00x / Hornet1-00x....

1-12 (I fished winding)

12-16 (I fished belaya)

16-27 (I fished kuori)  - Went to 3 rods Superduty or model one base rods til I had money to buy 3 x hsv in Volkhov @lvl 20 and 3 x express or superduty maximum size.

Again, if you are part of a community and ask questions, many people will always lend a hand and give good info whether it is bottom, spin, telestick.. whatever your choice is.  As well many discords to include the RF4 discord with setups, lakes, and fish sizes to help you out depending on what you want to do.

 

Believe it or not, the 0-10kg fish (on most lakes) are pretty easy to catch and in big numbers as well.  Join the discord, watch a few of the streamers and enjoy the game and find the game's limitations and your limitations.

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When the mods delete Jimmys post will you delete mine above also too please. 

 

And I hope that further posts in this topic get back to the original posters thread, which was his experience with trophy chances with different rigs

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  • 4 weeks later...

i agree with this post, im simply to hard to compete with feeders, personally i pretty much only do floatfishing on sticks, would love to use the matchrods but a hookrate of 20% is not fun for me, i rather play some other fishing game, and i saddens me becorse i really love RF4

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