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Voice from a loyal player who now may decide to leave


Love_vicky
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The EN forum is the best forum among the 9 forums, so I decide to say something here from my heart and hope it can be heard by the game designer. Thanks in advance.

 

I am a player from China and started to play this game maybe in July 2018 on steam. I was immediately attracted by the physical engine of this game. The feeling of fishing is almost real and really suits those who don't have spare time to fish outside in real life. Different fishing tackles can be used in this game and fighting with huge fish is really amazing. I love this game in the past 4 years and even produced a lot of video guides for new players in Bilibili.com.

 

But things changed since the "Biting Hour Effect" was inserted in this game.

 

Here, the "Biting Hour Effect" means if you fish continuously in the same location, the harvest in the first hour is normal while the harvest in the second hour will be cut by half and the harvest in the third hour will be negligible.

 

Next, I will tell you why this "Biting Hour Effect" (BHE for short) is a totally wrong decision.

 

Firstly, I think a good design should make a balance among lure fishing, bottom fishing and floating fishing. Before the BHE, the game did go that way. But the birth of BHE ruined the balance. More than 2 locations of bottom fishing are often difficult to find at the same time for a typical fish spice, to say nothing of float fishing. As a result, lure fishing becomes the most popular and one can easily find 2 or more locations to exchange hour by hour without any cost especially in Map Ladoga Archipelago. In the past years, I would suggest Rookies focus on both bottom fishing and lure fishing. But now, if a rookie asks me how to adapt to this game faster, I will say that just play lure fishing and go to Ladoga Archipelago as soon as possible. The playability of this game is getting worse.

 

Secondly, a good design should make most of the maps (obviously not all) attractive and players would like to change from map to map. But BHE has made the Map Ladoga Archipelago the only one to choose if you want to earn silver faster for better equipment as mentioned in the above. (By the way, the Akhtuba River was once the best map in my opinion, because you can do almost whatever you want here. Float fishing, bottom fishing and lure fishing all have the exponents here. But when the eastern bream is popular among players, you cut it down. When the catfish is popular, you also cut it down. When the black-spined Herring is popular, you again cut it down. You guys have made Akhtuba River from the best map ever to some map for sturgeons. That's a big step back.)

 

Thirdly, a good game needs both designers and players. Have you ever thought about what attracts the old players when the curiosity is gone? Different kinds of trophy fishes, larger fishes or more achievements. Obviously, the BHE makes all the 3 types of players disgusted. You guys could increase the price of tackles again and again without informing in advance. We forgive that. The server could be poor and easy to break down every time after the client is updated. We forgive that, too. However, please stop cutting down the harvest to disgust we old players who ever loved this game so much. We came to this game for fishing, not for drinking or digging.

 

Fourthly, I heard that the BHE was first implemented to deal with cheaters who use cheating tools and always stay in the same location fishing for a long time automatically. If really so, this is really a wrong decision. Cheaters are awful but the number of them are less if dealt with properly. The number of normal players is more. You should not sacrifice the interests of the majority just to deal with the minority. If you really want to handle the cheaters, update your system of game guard and detect them more quickly. One is one, two is two. Don't mix them together.

 

Moreover, I also heard that the BHE is set to make the game more virtual reality. Pardon? In reality, I have spent several hours standing by the river with few fish caught, so I don't want to stand by the computer for several hours with few fish again. We come to this game to experience something amazing we may not experience in real life. If you guys keep doing things like that, you are losing those who really loved this game. Hope you guys could understand what I have said and cancel the BHE in the game. I can see lots of disadvantages and even not one advantage of it. This has been the most criticizing setting in the game ever.

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Hello Vicky,
first of all, thank you for your feedback!
The system that you describe as "biting hour effect" does not exist, at least in the way you are putting it. There is no time limit on a spot being active. What does happen in the game is that you can overfish the population of fish available in one spot. This is completely dependant on the number of fish caught, but can also be influenced by overfeeding. For more details check out this Q&A
This system of populations being drained has, as you describe, been indeed implemented to create more realism and also encourage the player to try different things.

Your second point of some water bodies not being attractive, clearly comes from a very "meta" position of wanting to make the most possible silver per hour. That is completely fine, as some players enjoy this aspect of the game most.
This is unavoidable though, because this comes down to math and there will logically be always one water body that is "best".
Keep in mind though, that there are many different motivations to play the game and maps might be attractive to other players for different reasons.

Overall, with RF4 we are trying to create a game that encourages and rewards flexibility and creativity. Conditions change and the player has to adapt to stay successfull.
This might not appeal to every type of gamer but it is our philosophy and the soul of our game.

The best suggestion to enjoy RF4 is probably to not constantly look at the "silver per hour", but to set certain target fish for yourself. You will have more fun and the silver will come in as well over time.
And just in case you might have overplayed the game a bit, which we all know can happen in gaming, there is also no shame to taking a break from time to time. Often the game is more enjoyable afterwards!

Tight lines!

 

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8 hours ago, Lepin55 said:

Hello Vicky,
first of all, thank you for your feedback!
The system that you describe as "biting hour effect" does not exist, at least in the way you are putting it. There is no time limit on a spot being active. What does happen in the game is that you can overfish the population of fish available in one spot. This is completely dependant on the number of fish caught, but can also be influenced by overfeeding. For more details check out this Q&A
This system of populations being drained has, as you describe, been indeed implemented to create more realism and also encourage the player to try different things.

Your second point of some water bodies not being attractive, clearly comes from a very "meta" position of wanting to make the most possible silver per hour. That is completely fine, as some players enjoy this aspect of the game most.
This is unavoidable though, because this comes down to math and there will logically be always one water body that is "best".
Keep in mind though, that there are many different motivations to play the game and maps might be attractive to other players for different reasons.

Overall, with RF4 we are trying to create a game that encourages and rewards flexibility and creativity. Conditions change and the player has to adapt to stay successfull.
This might not appeal to every type of gamer but it is our philosophy and the soul of our game.

The best suggestion to enjoy RF4 is probably to not constantly look at the "silver per hour", but to set certain target fish for yourself. You will have more fun and the silver will come in as well over time.
And just in case you might have overplayed the game a bit, which we all know can happen in gaming, there is also no shame to taking a break from time to time. Often the game is more enjoyable afterwards!

Tight lines!

 

 

Thanks for your reply. 

 

Firstly, about the BHE. I understand your words. No matter what the way is, it turns out to be so. And this doesn't exist in the past version of the game. I know it's difficult for you to admit that it's a really bad design ever.

 

Secondly, the system of population does not encourage players to try different things. It just reduces the diversity and makes players away from the game. Ah, maybe you don't care about that. You guys have the statistics of the game. Check them and see the percent of players(over level 32) are now in  Ladoga Archipelago and  Amber Lake and how much time these players spend in this two places. And compare the statistics with those in the past time before the system of population is implemented. The system is burying the game. 

 

Thirdly, as you mentioned above about different motivations to play the game. I said about "silver per hour" to give an example of new players. That's not my motivation. I don't want to talk about new players here. For them, curiosity is enough. Let's talk about old players. As far as I'm concerned, the majority of them sit on 3 motivations: different kinds of trophies, biggest fish ever and game achievements. However, it's not difficult to understand that the system of population hurts all of them. One good example of creating more realism is the immigration of fish, which brings more differences and is easy to be accepted by players. The system of population? Apparently not! Of course, the designers could implement new systems. If the system works well, you can promote it. But if the system is harming the game, show your courage and cancel it. That's not shameful at all. You are saving the game.

 

In the last, you mentioned that maybe I have overplayed the game a bit. The truth is NONE of my friends supports the system of population. We have a chatting group and there are over 300 players here. Maybe all of them are overplaying the game and all need a break.

 

RF4 is really a good game, please stop ruining this game.

 

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i have only been playing for 6-8 months or so but one of the things i liked from the beginning was the fact that things change from time of day to seasons and weather .

i know as and avid fisherman in RL that fish like to move around for lots of different reasons and the most fun is looking for them and finding out what they are biting on.

sometimes just changing the speed of retrivial depending on the angle of the sun can make a big difference.

making silver is nice but sometimes i set for hours catching only a few if any just waiting for that one big one to show up. Which sometimes it does and sometimes it dosnt.

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2 hours ago, DaysKnight said:

i have only been playing for 6-8 months or so but one of the things i liked from the beginning was the fact that things change from time of day to seasons and weather .

i know as and avid fisherman in RL that fish like to move around for lots of different reasons and the most fun is looking for them and finding out what they are biting on.

sometimes just changing the speed of retrivial depending on the angle of the sun can make a big difference.

making silver is nice but sometimes i set for hours catching only a few if any just waiting for that one big one to show up. Which sometimes it does and sometimes it dosnt.

Yes, I agree with you. Because I was once doing exactly what you are doing. If you want to find out your final motivation of this game, just move on to at least level 40.

 

I have experienced most of the changes of this game. Some of them are really interesting and successful. For example, the immigration of fish and different kinds of boiled baits etc. Of course, I support these changes. But now, what I'm talking about is that the population of fish has done harm to this game.

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On 1/16/2023 at 1:11 PM, Lepin55 said:

Overall, with RF4 we are trying to create a game that encourages and rewards flexibility and creativity. Conditions change and the player has to adapt to stay successfull.
This might not appeal to every type of gamer but it is our philosophy and the soul of our game.

 


 

The above is not easy to do, as this game is super stingy when it comes to generating silver by playing the game. This in turn steers you towards exchanging USD for gold, and gold for silver. If you truly encourage flexibility and creativity, show that by increasing silver generation in game.

 

It's one of those things that holds back any new player, because it's a never ending and often unfair struggle with silver. It limits any kind of creativity or trying new things, because it's prohibitively costly to do so.

 

There's multiple constructive ways to do so, but this would of course limit the revenue stream. So a balance has to exist, and I currently feel that balance to be too much towards 1 direction.

Edited by Woowoof
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From my point of view, not the silvers are the purpose of this game, but the enjoying fishing and trying different setups, indeed getting silvers is not easy, but not as some other players describe "hard as F**k", lvl 47 player here and some days I do more than 3k only by fishing on Amber, and some other days 400-500 silvers by doing other types of fishing, but for me it's good (8 hours of fishing). The amount of silvers is after I buy other things if I need for the game. I enjoy doing floating and spinning, and I do not have the best gears from the game yet, if you enjoy what you do you do not need 3 TI + 3 venga,  3 segun ultima + 3 triumph, just do what you like to do and also in the same time you feel like you spent those hours enjoying the game. 

 

About low level players, now a lot of you guys will not be agree with this: now days to make silvers and increase your level it's far more easier than it was 5 years ago when I start playing this game, why?

- communities from the game are a many and big and will help you(low level)

- youtube, discords, twitch, vk + other social media from where you have anything you need to learn how/where to fish and on what to spend the silvers so you can get more silvers and better fishes

- it's enough to check some discords for mosquito/old burg and you will get more than 3 active spots where to fish

 

Cons(now vs 5 years ago) - I think there is only 1: we cannot trade items that we did not bought with gold.

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Totally agree botzy, when folk ask me best way to make silver I say 'find some stuff you enjoy fishing for in game and don't worry about the damn silver' The silver and xp will come in anyway no matter what you do. It's a game you're meant to be entertained and have fun so do something that is fun and enjoy yourself instead of sitting watching the numbers on your ingame silver and xp.

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I think you are actually getting a little off the main topic now, as it was never about the silver or xp. But about population and time spending at each spot. And i somewhat agree a little. Let me use and example for myself.

 

Lets say i really enjoy catching them brown trouts (could be another fish) and while i am at work, Puff a magicall spot appears on discord or a forum. and i get excited to get home and try it.  So i get home i load up get to the location, and oh boy the spot is good. But then regardless if its time or popolation of fish very often after around 1 hour there it becomes stale and boring, and nothing biting. 

Now in my oppinion 1 hour, or the equivalent population of fish for 1 hour just seems a little to low. 

I dont want to leave already and start searching another spot for those fish (and it could be a much more rare fish to find spots) or go for another fish entirely. 

I think its ok theres a limit and they change spots and all that. But i also think the poplation could be increased a little, so we dont have to move that fast, but enjoy it a little longer

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I know what you mean, but as you know and you already noticed, not all spots are working the same for different players. Friends from in game chat, same region were catching trophies at 83:145 Amber, I was fishing in the same time with them, using same baits and same PVA and I was not getting trophies or a decent bite rate, same was when I was catching fishes in  spot and some other players from in game chat were not having a good bite rate at the same spot, with the same baits. Indeed this will make us to spend more time looking for "our" spots where we have a better bite rate and better fishes.

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well i am not talking about trophies or difference in spot either. I am talking about  a super active spot for myself becomming dead after a certain amount of fish caught. 

And in my oppinion that X amount i feel is too small.

 

And i want to quickly add here, i love this game, and i think its the best fishing game out there, love the community, competitions and devs. So it is only feedback on how a feel a mechanic maybe could be tweeked a little

 

Another example i can come up with is how i enjoyed fishing for chars in ladoga, could spend houres there jigging, was so fun. But spots are often not that active there and i spend houres upon houres searching for them. 

So when a spot finally becomes active i would charge there and be having so much fun (yes jigging for chars does that to me 🙂 ) it was not about making silver or xp, but sitting there pulling those amazing fish out of the water

now unfortunatly spots becomes so inactive so fast. that it is very hard to enjoy ladoga for me, and char fishing is just not the same 😞

 

#bringbackthechars 😄

Edited by Kongkennet
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Indeed, I noticed that also, especially when I'm targeting new trophies, float or spinning, the bite rate goes down after a certain amount of time or after x number of fishes, or it starts slow and after like 20-40 minutes of fishing the bite rate increase. But when it happens that with me, I get my secret weapon out "patience" and I keep fishing 😉  

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10 hours ago, Kongkennet said:

I think you are actually getting a little off the main topic now, as it was never about the silver or xp. But about population and time spending at each spot. And i somewhat agree a little. Let me use and example for myself.

 

Lets say i really enjoy catching them brown trouts (could be another fish) and while i am at work, Puff a magicall spot appears on discord or a forum. and i get excited to get home and try it.  So i get home i load up get to the location, and oh boy the spot is good. But then regardless if its time or popolation of fish very often after around 1 hour there it becomes stale and boring, and nothing biting. 

Now in my oppinion 1 hour, or the equivalent population of fish for 1 hour just seems a little to low. 

I dont want to leave already and start searching another spot for those fish (and it could be a much more rare fish to find spots) or go for another fish entirely. 

I think its ok theres a limit and they change spots and all that. But i also think the poplation could be increased a little, so we dont have to move that fast, but enjoy it a little longer

I think it is part of the conversation though. If spots would be available for extended periods of time, with "good" fish, to much silver would be made. Now you can say fish and enjoy the game, don't worry about the silver.

 

At the same time, without decent gear your line will break, you will not be able to reel in some of the fish that you catch, gear wears down fast etc... So yes, the silver does matter if you want to fish without micro managing your gear.

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11 hours ago, Woowoof said:

I think it is part of the conversation though. If spots would be available for extended periods of time, with "good" fish, to much silver would be made. Now you can say fish and enjoy the game, don't worry about the silver.

 

At the same time, without decent gear your line will break, you will not be able to reel in some of the fish that you catch, gear wears down fast etc... So yes, the silver does matter if you want to fish without micro managing your gear.

If your line is breaking that's down to a poor setup tbh, nothing to do with decent gear, not ebing able to reel fish in again that's about knowledge and experience... if you're going fishing for sturges with a 15kg setup then that's a choice the player has made, not his gears fault.

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I am at a spot where I can catch anything from 72 gram fish to 15 kg fish. That's a wide range, and without a proper setup you will snap gear under those conditions. You never know what is going to bite. And while you can fish specifically for larger fish, a large fish can bite when your setup it not designed for it.

 

I just got a 12 kg catfish and a 5 kg burbot, on the same rod, while I was typing this. Lucky for me, they bit on my second best rod. If they would have bitten on my third best rod, there would have been issues.

 

Wish I could get a better setup and have all 3 rods setup identical, I don't have enough silver to do so. Just got another 5.2 kg catfish on that rod. Need the big fish for silver and XP, so I have to balance how I fish and hope the big ones bite on my 2 best rods, and not on my lesser rod. I have different bait on my lesser rod, in the hopes the smaller fish grab that one.

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Again if you are snapping gear that's down to your setup and your choices. Every leader, reel, line or rod I've broken has been down to my mistakes, I accept that and don't look for excuses outside of it. If you hook a catfish on a 8kg setup reduce your friction, nothing will break unless you do something silly. people catch big fish on ultra-light setups all the time, patience and knowledge gets them the fish, not simply throwing silver at them.

Edited by Shivva
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